Published on October 10, 2004 By O G San In International
I enjoy reading the work of those with whom I fundamentally disagree. I've just finished Yoram Hazony's "The Struggle for Israel's Soul", an impassioned defense of the tenets of traditional Zionism. I always enjoy Stephen King's articles and the thoughts of Pat Buchanan. I find that reading things from the opposite side of the political spectrum helps to take me out of my intellectuial comfort zone, that it improves my mental rigour to think "why is this worng?"

When I picked up a copy of Rush Limbaugh's "See, I Told You So" a few months back, I was expecting to be similarly challenged. I knew little of his actual work, more of his reputation as the voice of Republican America. I was hoping for sharp, incisive, right-wing argument. I was deeply disappointed. Once one overcomes the man's quite staggering ego, one finds that Limbaugh has little of interest to say.

A typical Limbaugh argument tends to make sense for a superficial period of time, say the first second and a half, before logic rudely intrudes and reduces it to absurdity. My favourite of his pithy one-liners is the assertion that liberals believe that choice is " something good when it comes to abortion, something bad when it comes to education."

Yeah! Good straight-talking...oh shit, no hang on a minute. Limbaugh says that liberals are inconsistent in their application of "choice" yet no-one on this planet would defend "choice" in any and all circumstances, it is not an absolute. I should have the choice of what type of shampoo to buy, but I shouldn't have the choice of whether or not to steal said shampoo rather than paying for it. But even if one did accept Limbaugh's logic that choice is an absolute, wouldn't conservatives then be open to the same criticism that they believe in "choice" for education but not for abortion?

For me, this points to the fact that Limbaugh is a propagandist rather than a serious thinker. However he did make one point in his book which piqued my interest when he wrote:

"...it doesn't take any guts to be a liberal. It's the easiest decision you could ever make in your life...All you have to do to be a good liberal is to say yes to everything, except cutting spending and downsizing government...All you have to do to prove your compassion is to say yes..."

This got me thinking, is conservatism really the more difficult choice for a person to make? It seems to me that, on the contrary, to be left-wing (I'm a European so I don't "do" the liberal versus conservative dichotomy) is the tougher option.

Left and right are labels which encompass many different attitudes and policy prescriptions, so I must speak in very general terms here. To my mind, what divides left from right is their view of human nature. Leftists believe that collective political action can improve the condition of humanity, while those on the right see our unjust world as either inevitable or necessary or both. I would charcterise this as the difference between optimism and pessimism. Conservatives might well respond that it is actually the difference between naivety and realism. But either way, this basic dichotomy serves as a useful point of reference.

With this in mind, it seems to me that to be left-wing is much more difficult than to be right-wing. Conservatism is, in some ways our default position. Part of the conservative mentality is the urge to shrug one's shoulders and say "life's a bitch, nothing I can do about it". It's much harder by contrast to believe, as leftists do, that the human race can actually improve its lot, that we can reduce poverty, increase tolerance, strengthen human rights. The easier option is to accept this injustice, to celebrate it even.

There's an exceptionally well-worn cliche that if you're not liberal at 20 you don't have a heart but if you haven't turned conservative by the time you're 30, you don't have a brain. I disagree with this truism but still, it points to an incontestable fact, that the older you are, the more likely you are to be right-wing. This holds true, to the best of my knowledge, in every single democratic society.

Conservatives would have you believ that this is because "wisdom comes with age", but there is another, more intriguing explanation. It could be that as people age, they lose the energy to be angry. They are so worn down intellectually by the evident injustice of the world that they come to accept it. If this is true then drifting rightward as you age is a sign, not of wisdom, but rather of submission.

Isn't there something wonderful about those who refuse to submit, the old unrepentant lefties, shaking their walking sticks in anger at the unfairness of it all? How can they be said to be taking the easy option?

So I disagree with Mr. Limbaugh's "conservatism is tough" argument, but it does at least hold up a lot longer than his average offering.

Comments
on Oct 11, 2004
In other words it might be that growing older make people more confortable in the system and thus less likely to want to improve and may be change their own confort.

=> if you're not liberal at 20 you don't have a heart but if you haven't turned conservative by the time you're 30, you don't have a brain.

There is a biological reason to distrust this statement, actually every second we are losing some brains cells, neurons are cells that actually not replicate. Thus the older, the less brain you have, and to my own experience that's true that older people tend to be more conservatives than young...

on Oct 11, 2004
I think the Liberal idea has more contradictions to it than conservative idea making it harder to be liberal than conservative.

I.E. Liberals support racial equality but let minority leaders downgrade and say racist comments about their own minority to their perspective minority.

- GX
on Oct 11, 2004
Liberals support racial equality but let minority leaders downgrade and say racist comments about their own minority to their perspective minority.


Not sure what you are talking about here, but I take exception to the idea of "let." Encourage? Allow? Don't condemn? Are these all synonymous with "let"? Did all liberals (so-called) let this happen, or were some equally outspoken about it as wrong?

Liberals accept, I think, that there is a conundrum at the heart of most racial issues -- namely, racial discrimination is bad but then so is "color blindness." When does the celebration of cultural difference become discrimination? When can a phenomenon be attributed (at least in part) to racially marked ethnicity or cultural difference? When do such attributions serve stereotyping or prejudiced ends? Many liberals know that there are (ironically) no easy, "black and white" answers to these questions. In most cases, you have to weigh the potential prejudice against the potential celebration of difference/differance. And this may be where the toughness of being liberal really comes in, because the conservative opposition tends to believe in cut-and-dry answers to complex issues. Indeed, the kind of contradiction Grim points to above is not deployed as a sign of the incredible diversity and complexity of (human) life, but is deployed as evidence of the faultiness of liberal positions.

I turn 40 this year. I've been a liberal all of my adult (i.e. voting) life. I am still a liberal. The only thing that has really changed is that now I listen to conservatives and find value in what they say. In my youth, I thought conservatives were only misguided and ignorant. I worry that my willingness to listen may be a sign that I am following the trend of the age to go conservative as I get older. I don't think so, though. The wisdom of aging teaches me not to discount such a large portion of my fellow citizens. And I hope that my fellow citizens who are conservative can at least afford me and my liberal kind the same attitude.
on Oct 11, 2004
Explain away how Liberals are always ready to seperate everybody into black and white instead of looking at an individual how about that?

Or how about this comment from a African American Leader
"Black voters are 'afraid' of electronic voting machines. They are not tech-savvy and will be intimidated by touch screen voting systems and therefore be less likely to vote."
This was said by Carol Moseley-Braun, a African American civil rights activist who made this comment about the voting in Florida in the upcoming Presidential campaign. Don't think it's racist?

Come on seriously both majors have problems with racism but the Liberal want to draw lines in the sand seperating every body into color distinction, it is not a matter of 'color blindess' but blatant or covert racism.

What is wrong with accepting each person as an individual instead of saying something about the WHOLE race or that person is such and such color, hmmm?

- GX
Hispanic Anti-Demican Anti-Republicrat Libertarian
on Oct 12, 2004
What is wrong with accepting each person as an individual instead of saying something about the WHOLE race or that person is such and such color, hmmm?


Absolutely nothing, if that were the world we lived in. But the sad truth is that racial prejudice and racial profiling are facts of life in our society. The question is, what do you do about it? Treat every incident as an individual "crime"? Or try to enact some broader correctives to this social practice?

Yes, sometimes folks try to speak for or even of the group that they (purport to) represent, grossly generalizing that group. Your Mosely-Braun quote is a typical example of that. I am fortunate enough to be in a state whose US Sentate race between Obama and Keyes demonstrates that "THE black community" is hardly unified on any issue. That hasn't kept either candidate from speaking in fairly generalized terms about "THE black community," though. But then, how often do we hear at JU sweeping generalizations about "Liberals" or "the Right." What is the political worldview equivalent of this sort of stereotyping prejudice?

The "treat every case as an individual" approach sounds good, but does little to explain why some races/ethnicities are disproportionately represented, for example, on death row or in prison generally -- or are disproportionately under-represented in board rooms and other positions of privilege and influence. The bigger question, though, may be how do you respond/react to systemic racism without creating another system of racism? I don't pretend to have THE answer for that problem, but I strongly suspect it does NOT involve pretending systemic racism does not exist.

--Bungy
White Queer Reluctantly-Dem Liberal

on Oct 12, 2004
I don't pretend to have THE answer for that problem, but I strongly suspect it does NOT involve pretending systemic racism does not exist.


I know racism exists, I NEVER claimed racism did not exist, but why should we keep perpetuating racism or racist agendas into future generations through our politics?

- Grim X
on Oct 12, 2004

Having to say "No" to someone is harder to do than to say "Yes."

Liberals say yes to everythign. Conservatives have to say no often times.  I don't think the latter half of your argument is compelling enough to overcome that basic reality.

on Oct 12, 2004

BTW, it is liberals who are much more likely to break society down into various groups.  They seperate people into the rich and the poor. Black and white. Men and women. Gay and straight.

Most conservatives prefer one set of rules for everyone. Tax cuts? Across the board for everyone.  Hiring? Same rules apply for everyone.  Enterance exams? Same requirements for everyone. 

on Oct 12, 2004
This was said by Carol Moseley-Braun, a African American civil rights activist who made this comment about the voting in Florida in the upcoming Presidential campaign. Don't think it's racist?


Didn't we cover this somewhere else? I thought it was determined that she was not infact the one that said this, but rather someone else?
on Oct 12, 2004
Didn't we cover this somewhere else? I thought it was determined that she was not infact the one that said this, but rather someone else?


Well yes I think we covered it somewhere else but as I hear from the Kerry camp so often 'just because the memos were wrong doesn't mean the content was'!

Plus this is what said about it:

Reply #24 By: Angelique (Anonymous) - 10/2/2004 1:47:55 PM

According to CNSNews.com it was JOANNE BLAND, Co-founder of the National Voting Rights Museum And Institute in Selma, Alabama, who made this statement. She included herself in the group she said is terrified of the machines. Maybe she should just speak for herself.


So correction it was Joanne Bland, though still African American and still a leader who still said that racist comment.

Link to Joanne Bland Bio

So what is your point now?

- Grim X
on Oct 12, 2004
Draginol:
Most conservatives prefer one set of rules for everyone. Tax cuts? Across the board for everyone.


I'm too cynical to believe this of anyone -- I doubt that anyone in the position to be heard on tax cuts has proposed one that doesn't favour their own economic class above others.

Two examples:

1. The aforementioned "across the board" reduction -- as certain people are wont to point out, the wealthier you are the higher the proportion of taxes you pay. Likewise, the same reduction in all brackets leaves a proportionally higher benefit to the wealthy. The claim that everyone is benefitting from the cut is only proportionately true -- most proponents use language to make it sound like everyone has equal benefit.

2. Capital gains and dividend tax breaks -- people like to claim that nowadays everybody is in an investor due to pension (public and private) and savings/retirement plans. Reducing taxes on gains in asset value (capital gains) or on income distribution (dividends) should likewise have a positive effect on everybody. Again, only true propotionately since income from investments as a proportion of all income obviously increases with total wealth, i.e., the more you have to spend outside of survival, the more you can spend on generating wealth. A typical family in the middle income range has a targeted expense level of 40% of gross earnings for shelter. Take away other necessities that probably leaves a relatively small amount for pension contributions (sometimes compulsory, but not always) and even less for wealth generation. Given how much the average American seems to be leveraged, I doubt most are in the premium investor category where simple transaction and management fees are waived. End result? The great majority of the "investor class" do not enjoy an equal benefit of a reduction in capital gains or dividend tax breaks.

Am I arguing against tax breaks? Nope, not at all.

I'm saying that I find it laughable that anybody cheering for one doesn't have their own interests first and foremost in mind and disingenous that they care about anyone else as much.
on Oct 12, 2004
Though we have a Nobel Laureate Economist saying we need deeper tax cuts not tax raises (or as someone puts it 'rolling back tax cuts').

Link to article

- Grim X
on Oct 12, 2004
Unfortunately, the last tax bill passed (Link and Link) seems to be a mish mash of corporate favouritism.
on Oct 12, 2004
I'm too cynical to believe this of anyone -- I doubt that anyone in the position to be heard on tax cuts has proposed one that doesn't favour their own economic class above others.

Two examples:

1. The aforementioned "across the board" reduction -- as certain people are wont to point out, the wealthier you are the higher the proportion of taxes you pay. Likewise, the same reduction in all brackets leaves a proportionally higher benefit to the wealthy. The claim that everyone is benefitting from the cut is only proportionately true -- most proponents use language to make it sound like everyone has equal benefit.

2. Capital gains and dividend tax breaks -- people like to claim that nowadays everybody is in an investor due to pension (public and private) and savings/retirement plans. Reducing taxes on gains in asset value (capital gains) or on income distribution (dividends) should likewise have a positive effect on everybody. Again, only true propotionately since income from investments as a proportion of all income obviously increases with total wealth, i.e., the more you have to spend outside of survival, the more you can spend on generating wealth. A typical family in the middle income range has a targeted expense level of 40% of gross earnings for shelter. Take away other necessities that probably leaves a relatively small amount for pension contributions (sometimes compulsory, but not always) and even less for wealth generation. Given how much the average American seems to be leveraged, I doubt most are in the premium investor category where simple transaction and management fees are waived. End result? The great majority of the "investor class" do not enjoy an equal benefit of a reduction in capital gains or dividend tax breaks.

Am I arguing against tax breaks? Nope, not at all.

I'm saying that I find it laughable that anybody cheering for one doesn't have their own interests first and foremost in mind and disingenous that they care about anyone else as much.


Guess what folks. I want a tax cut. I do NOT need a tax cut however. The government does need to cut its debt. If the only way to do that is to tax me, so be it. I would like to have a tax cut for the highest tax bracket first though, because of course I favor tax cuts for me over the other peoplel.
on Oct 12, 2004
Thanks all for your comments.