over the past couple years, there've been at least two questionable 'major' terrorist cell busts in the us.

one--in northern california--resulted in convictions which may well be reversed on appeal. both the accused and the fbi seem to have been manipulated by a professional snitch who 'earned' hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process.

near the end of june 2006, a plot to blow up the sears tower was 'foiled' when the 7 alleged plotters were arrested. opposite to the surface of its hell-directed counterpart, bad intentions--in combination with some ill-advised braggadocio--paved the road to jail for this bunch.
they had no weapons, no money (as evidenced by the fact their alleged headquarters was an empty warehouse based in miami's liberty city district) and no connection with jihadis unless you wanna count the informant sent their way by the fbi.

as far as the plot exposed yesterday, i'm wondering why explosive 'sniffing' technology wouldn't have detected the contents of the sports drink bottle bombs. is there some mysterious or arcane property bottles share with shoes?

This is a great world when we have people who need others to actually die just so they can feel 100% sure that terrorist are still active. Scepticism? I guess terrorist are actually winning this war when we have people question every action taken by our Gov't. They have accoplished the ability to make people wonder if they are actually terrorist since they never really got to pull the job off. I'm sorry to say this but this is shameful that people like you 2 need to have blood on our hands as the only legit proof that we are under terrorist attacks. I would rather have the Gov't fool me than actually not do anything and let terrorist do things just so they have the excuse to bomb the hell out of another country.

To: Charles.C

So. You'd rather give the government in question (or any government) carte blanche to lie, manipulate, deceive and sow universal distrust of all 'legitimate' authority (I use the '' because legitimacy depends, in part, on trustworthiness) than recognise the fact that some 'terrorists' are merely ineffectual whiners and incompetent plotters of grandiose schemes of destruction that have no more substance or reality than my claim to be Universal Dictator and Grand Poobah of Everything?

That must be terribly reassuring to politicians everywhere, who depend on the belief of people like yourself that government is inherently trustworthy simply because it is the government.

One of the first requirements of a citizen is that he maintain at all times a healthy scepticism toward the pronouncements of those who have the capacity (if not the intention) to deceive him - and the second requirement is that he be aware that anyone who wants power and is given it is open to the temptation to abuse it in his own interest.

My first thought on hearing of this so-called plot was that it was a publicity stunt because I, like O G San, am aware of the nature of the government that announced its discovery. Monkeyboy Blair deliberately lied his way into the war in Iraq, deceiving Parliament, his own party, and the Opposition, as to the nature of the threat. Nothing he or his ministers say deserves to be taken at face value.

Peroxide based explosives are a two part mixture, peroxide smells just like your average bottle of peroxide, a substance to clean wounds. By refining the peroxide into a much stronger formular you have the basis of a very nasty explosive.

I will not print the other common household item to make this explosives, but both substances are found in most homes.

By themselves they are harmless, but when mixed together they explode with the force of Nitro, they entire bomb needs an electrical current of around 3 volts to explode.

Peroxide based explosives are a two part mixture, peroxide smells just like your average bottle of peroxide, a substance to clean wounds. By refining the peroxide into a much stronger formular you have the basis of a very nasty explosive.

i'm late already so this has to be very short.

mm, based on what little information's been released, you've correctly identified the intended contents of those bottles. still, peroxide-based explosives can be easily and inexpensively detectable at the molecular level using technology devised by an israeli whose developmental research was furthered by funding (about $100,000) provided by the clinton administration even though--at that time-- this sorta formulation was used almost exclusively by terrorists attacks in and against israel.

for the record, i applaud both his work and our contribution to it.

So. You'd rather give the government in question (or any government) carte blanche to lie, manipulate, deceive and sow universal distrust of all 'legitimate' authority (I use the '' because legitimacy depends, in part, on trustworthiness) than recognise the fact that some 'terrorists' are merely ineffectual whiners and incompetent plotters of grandiose schemes of destruction that have no more substance or reality than my claim to be Universal Dictator and Grand Poobah of Everything?

When you can show me a Gov't that can be trusted I will change my stance. A million years can go by and no matter what anyone does, how much anyone prays, or how much someone believes, Gov'ts will always depend on the ignorance of those who vote for them. Maybe you might have not noticed or just refuse to accept it but we live in a world driven by money not moral ethics or doing the right thing. And as long as there are people who will do anything for money there will never be such a thing as a Gov't that can be trusted. You can be a dreamer all you want, you can believe that the Gov't should be this way or that way, but it the end the truth is the Gov't is exactly when we all know it is, a group of people who make others think they are there for the people but in reality they are there for themselves and for those who can profit from thei positions and in turn they can profit themselves. The day I see a politician go to work, do his job and either refuse to accept his salary or donate it to a worthy charity because he feels that he is there to help the American people and that their satisfaction is payment enough, then I will have hopes of a Gov't that should be what it was ment to be, a Gov't for the people, by the people, not for themselves by cheating.

No amount of trustworthiness will suffice for some people. The fact that some things must be kept secret is enough to ensure perpetual skepticism. You have to accept that what kingbee would consider a trustworthy government will never exist and that each set of questionable circumstances must be judged on its own merits. This approach seems to work out.

"This is a great world when we have people who need others to actually die just so they can feel 100% sure that terrorist are still active."

Charles, if you're going to critique a blog at least take the time read it. This is what I said:

"There are thousands of people around the world who would gladly murder British civilians."

I am not in any way saying that an attack on Britain can be ruled out. If we can get through the next twelve months wothout another atrocity I will be pleasantly surprised.

Nor am I saying that the men arrested yesterday are innocent. Unlike John Reid, I'm of the rather old-fashioned view that that is a matter for a court to decide.

I am however saying that, given the British government's record of lies - of which Iraq is just the best known of many examples - only a fool would take them on their word.

Is it wrong of me to think that those that don't want to trust their governments should just get the F--- out and go make their own happy little Utopias to live in where they can be sure that the government isn't doing anything for them -- no secrecy, no protection, nuthin' ??

And please note that I'm saying that I would ever blindly trust the government, but I have worked in the security arena before and know that a secret is only valuable and useful if it's not shared, most especially not with the likes of the N.Y. Times and others that claim to be protecting our freedoms as they instead abuse those freedoms and endanger our citizens in the long term.

Given a choice of trusting my government, or trusting the press, I think I'll choose the government. That would likely hold true even if we saw another Democrat take power in the U.S.A., though admittedly, I'd be skeptical and would need a while to build up some trust along the way.

Yeah, there are no terrorists bent on death and destruction in the Western world. It all made up.

Wake up and smell the coffee already.

When you can show me a Gov't that can be trusted I will change my stance

no sense anyone else wasting their time doin that seeing as you've refuted your previous so-called 'stance'--put forth in your initial response (reply #2) wherein you raged against "people (who) question every action taken by our Gov't" and issued this simple-minded proclamation: "I would rather have the Gov't fool me than actually not do anything and let terrorist do things"--by subsequently denouncing government and all those engaged in its operation as hopelessly untrustworthy.

not that it's of any consequence.

You have to accept that what kingbee would consider a trustworthy government will never exist and that each set of questionable circumstances must be judged on its own merits.

if the dead can read, barry's gotta be spinnin outta control. you're sayin i trust government less than you?

Is it wrong of me to think that those that don't want to trust their governments should just get the F--- out and go make their own happy little Utopias to live in where they can be sure that the government isn't doing anything for them -- no secrecy, no protection, nuthin' ??

not at all. sounds like the basis for a great oath of allegiance to der homelander sicherheiten bund.

Given a choice of trusting my government, or trusting the press

no such choice being offered here. government and the press seem to be equally enthusiastic about high-profile terrorist plot foilings.

Yeah, there are no terrorists bent on death and destruction in the Western world.

notta doubt in my mind they're out there and exactly as described.

i'm a lil less convinced bout the efficacy of targeting plots to blow up the sears tower involving 7 guys none of whom--singly or collectively--have the price of a single one-way bus ticket to chicago.

terpfan1980,

"Is it wrong of me to think that those that don't want to trust their governments should just get the F--- out...??"

Yes.